Kate Axelrod’s new book of stories, How to Get Along Without Me, is, to quote the jacket copy, “a collection that summons the perversity and poignance of twentysomething dating lives from a bracingly wry and honest new literary voice.” Christine Smallwood says it’s “Surprising, funny, and painfully true.” Andrew Martin hails HtGAWM as “Sharp, poignant, and full of perfect details.” Lindsay Hunter calls the stories “Wary and beautiful, savage and true.” Hooray! This makes me happy and excited and proud because––disclaimer––I helped edit the book. But also, and probably more importantly, the author is my kid sister.
Kate was kind enough to take time out of her busy life and respond to a few of my most pressing questions. This exchange took place over whatever Google is calling Gchat these days.
Kate
Hey Sam
Sam
hi
are we capitalizing
Kate
hmm
let's not
or like, let's just do what we would normally do?
Sam
this feels silly
cause we talk so much
but then this is like our public conversation for hashtag hobart nation
ok anyway
let me ask you a question
Kate
great
Sam
ok so thinking about the first story, the uniquely structured "their exes' exes," as like the “opening salvo” of the book
or like the first song
one thing I admire about your stories is that they’re not trying to play it cool
that story almost feels like gossip
Kate
(i just lol-ed)
thank you?
Sam
ty for loling
but not playing it cool is cool
in fiction
like I can feel your curiosity about people coming through in the stories
FICTIONALLY
so if i have a question
it's how important do you think curiosity is to writing
Kate
that's a good question and, SO IMPORTANT
Sam
please elaborate
Kate
it feels impossible to create nuanced characters without being generally curious about people?
/their motivations/what moves them, etc
"dynamics"
i'm always so interested in family/friend dynamics
what's the jeffrey eugenides quote that i always ask you about?
Sam
hmm
Kate
something about the more specific writing is, the more universal it is?
Sam
like a million people have said that
Kate
oh, lol
Sam
i feel like it actually should be the more specific the writing is, the more believable it is
or convincing
Kate
okay well like a million other people, i obviously agree with the sentiment and i think i'm just always interested in details about people’s lives and i hope that translates to my writing?
Sam
works for me
i feel like this is the most obvious question you keep getting asked, but why a linked collection?
what are the advantages of linking them that wouldnt be there otherwise?
Kate
there were a lot of different drafts of this collection (obviously a lot of drafts of each story but also of the collection as a whole) and in the last iteration before i decided to link them, it just became really clear that something was missing
all the stories were exploring similar themes around intimacy (or lack of intimacy) but i needed to do something to make them more cohesive
and because so many of the characters were so similar, it seemed like it made the most sense?
Sam
correct
those are the right answers
Kate
I was also reading a Charles Baxter book during one of the drafts
that was linked stories
and it really appealed to me and made me want to give it a try
Sam
in 2015 you published a novel, The Law of Loving Others (or TLoLO as an industry insider might say)
can you talk a little about the differences between the two projects? Cause my sense is they’ve been very different experiences in all ways: how long they took, your approach to them, the publishing experiences
Kate
sure. As you know, I wrote the novel while I was in graduate school
It was sort of like, this secret thing I was nurturing
Sam
i know nothing
Kate
I didn't really tell anyone
But it felt really important to me… because I was going to graduate school in social work, I felt like, I needed to keep writing or else I never would again? which obv wasn't actually the case but it felt very urgent at the time
The whole thing happened sort of quickly? In retrospect I was very lucky, I got an agent quickly
I've probably said this a million times but I was just very hungry for validation
it was like I needed someone to say, even though you're going to social work school you're still a writer, don't worry
(or something like that?)
This collection feels really different
The stakes feel a lot lower to me, in a good way
Sam
interesting
i appreciate you using the word "validation"
i feel like a lot of writers wouldnt admit to that
Kate
omg obv
Sam
or like would spin it
Kate
everyone needs/wants validation
Sam
yeah even cats
Kate
especially cats
Sam
also i was gonna say even tho im a TLoLO fan i feel like these stories are more "you"
and i wonder how much of that is just age and becoming a better writer
but also how much is related to really like sitting with some of these stories for so long and not trying to hurry out a book
Kate
yeah, idk
i feel bad saying this
Sam
say it
Kate
but i just really hope i don't one day feel about HTGAWM the way I now feel about TLOLO
i feel very cringey about it
Sam
:(
i think thats probably very common
whats that quote
like no piece of writing is ever finished, you just have to look away in disgust at some point
Kate
i don't think i know that quote but yes, totally resonates
Sam
ok one more question related to validation etc
historically speaking, you’re good at submitting stories to magazines etc
The Submittable Queen, they call you
Kate
lol
Sam
I’m not so great at doing that. And we’re both virgos!
what drives you to write / and what drives you to publish? Cause I find them to be very different things
Kate
yes but we're SUCH different virgos
Sam
true
Kate
i think one big difference between us is that i'm really into being productive/crossing things off my to-do list
when i finish a story i just really want to send it away
Sam
i love crossing things off lists
Kate
ok so basically my "process" is that i feel compelled to write for whatever reason (can get to that reason after) but then once the story is done i send it to you and/or others to edit
get it back and make changes
and then send it off again
i get tired of editing pretty quickly and just want it off my plate/mind
if that makes sense?
Sam
it makes sense
Kate
like, now it’s in someone else's hands
they can decide if it's good or not
Sam
i think its just a foreign concept to me
Kate
why
Sam
idk
i guess im big on overthinking
"perfectionist"
aka scared
Kate
right, i'm really not a perfectionist at all
which has its pros and cons
but you know what they say
Sam
what do they say
Kate
"don't let perfect be the enemy of good"
Sam
yeah or
perfect is the enemy of the DONE
which i like better
Kate
sometimes i wish i were a little bit more of a perfectionist
but i guess that's why i have you to edit all of my stuff
Sam
how nice for you
sometimes i wish i was messier
though this interview is pretty messy
so maybe i’m growing
ok next question
I think one of the most interesting themes of the book is that the female protagonists are often super close with their female friends but are often chasing after or fixated on men they’re dating or trying to date
and it often gets messy
there's that line “I still couldn’t shake the idea that men were not my allies”
you’re gonna roll your eyes but i feel like this is the most political aspect of the book
Kate
lol, please say more
Sam
and the women push back a little on like (hetero)normative living but ultimately they kind of fall in line
im not sure what my question is exactly
Kate
that i agree with
Sam
can you speak about this a little
and maybe how deliberate it was to include this "theme"
Kate
i mean, this aspect was really autobiographical for me
Sam
well i respect your fictional powers
Kate
lol thank you, but my female friendships have historically been quite paramount to all my other relationships (this one notwithstanding)
and i think that's something that often changes a lot as people get older and "settle down"
and i think that tension can be really hard between friends
and also this idea that you "should" be settling down
or that you're "behind" if your priority is that you just wanna hang out with your friends all the time
Sam
well i guess im saying i think you handle it really well in the book
Kate
tysm
Sam
this kind of leads into my next question
again, the stories are mostly about dating in one’s 20s and early 30s
now you’re married, two kids, serious full time job, and you drive your daughter to gymnastics up to three times a week
where do you go from here in terms of inspiration for your writing?
I just read a draft of your first post-HtGAWM story and motherhood is a big part of it
do you think that’s your next great subject?
Kate
(andrew does one way, just want to be clear, i do pick up)
i really, really don't know
i've written some non-fiction about my kids which weirdly feels easier
well, it's mostly about me in relation to my children
not about my children
for whatever reason i don't feel up for exploring that just yet. or like, it feels so complicated and hard to do well and if you don't do it well it's really unfortunate, because you've just written about your children
Sam
do you feel pressure to write another book
self inflicted or otherwise
Kate
i really would like to write another novel
but it's impossible to force
so we'll see, i guess
Sam
some people force it
Kate
i've learned a lot about medicine and palliative care in my current job
and i'm sort of interested to see if there's a way to write about that
from a different perspective/in a different context
i'm really interested in reading about palliative care and end-of-life stuff
but mostly what i’ve read is non-fiction
The inevitable by Katie Engelhart is such a good one
Sam
have you read that book "how we die"
Kate
no! what is that
Sam
idk, a book i have that ive been meaning to read
maybe we can book club it
its written by a doctor
hold on
Sherwin Nuland
Kate
yes, would love that
i also have read some interesting books about dementia
again, non-fiction
Sam
cool i hate dementia
ok last question
june 97
do you remember when you wanted to go to the Weezer show at Roseland with me and I was like no fucking way
you were 11 so I was 16. it was your first show
Kate
of course i remember
Sam
and you wound up going with Dad, and I went with Dave and Stefan
and I pretended I didn’t know you. or maybe we never even ran into you guys
i just want to use this public platform to say I’m sorry
and that i’m glad we’re friends
and colleagues
Kate
that's so nice, sweetie pie
i totally forgive you
thank you so much and same
thanks for editing my book a thousand times
Sam
youre welcome
ok we have too many words
this gchat party is over
